Season 3, Episode 6 – Game Changers: Turning waste into data, action, and economic empowerment

Lorraine Johnston:
Hello, and welcome to ESG Matters at Ashurst. I'm Lorraine Johnston, a Partner specializing in Financial and Sustainability Regulation here at Ashurst. You're listening to Season 3 of Game Changers. From innovators at the cutting edge of technology to impact investors funding a cleaner energy future, each and every one of our guests is changing the game in their field. In today's episode, you'll hear my conversation with Oliver Kade, Chief Technology Officer and UK Country Manager at Seven Clean Seas. Let's jump in and hear the discussion.
Oliver, I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about yourself and your role at Seven Clean Seas.

Oliver Kade:
Yeah, well, first and foremost, thank you for having me, it's an absolute pleasure to be here. I am part of the founding team behind an organisation called Seven Clean Seas. Essentially, Seven Clean Seas, we are a ocean impact organisation, so what we do is we focus on building plastic pollution recovery projects in vulnerable locations, predominantly around Indonesia, Thailand, and looking to expand in areas that are suffering quite heavily from plastic pollution. Our remit really is how do we collect plastic from the environment, intercept it through waterways and prevent it from being polluted by providing education in household waste management. My role within Seven Clean Seas is twofold. I'm really responsible for how do we work with organizations in terms of monitoring plastics within supply chains, finding ways to help some of these massive organizations such as FIFA World Cup reduce their plastic, and also I work with these corporates to essentially finance the work that we do.

Lorraine Johnston:
And what does success look like for Seven Clean Seas?

Oliver Kade:
Obviously, monitoring is a huge part, but when it comes to some success, I really say that it's threefold for us. Of course, recovery and recycling targets. We monitor ourselves on how much plastic can we recover from the environment and how much of it can we recycle. We have really bold targets by 2030, we want to recover over 100 million kilograms of plastic. We also have social targets that we measure ourselves in terms of success. So currently, we've estimated that we're improving around about 18,000 lives year to date, but really social side of what we do is inherently a big part. So by 2030, we expect to improve over 200,000 lives. And then I also think that it's an important point here, and I mentioned that the root cause of the global plastic pollution crisis is a funding issue. For us, having financial sustainability in our operations and what we do is a huge part of being able to be successful in the work that we do. So inherently, these are how we define success.
When I was actually thinking about this question, it made me realize that of course, that covers both environmental, social, and economic side of sustainability, so it makes complete sense. But one other thing that I did want to highlight is that a lot of the work that we do is nascent. We're in a new market, we're defining how the market grows and how the impact can scale. And I think one of the, I suppose more personal success targets that I want to see is the work that we are doing making its way into national legislation and policy as well. A lot of the work I do is advocating for the systems, for financing plastic waste management in the Global South to make their way into global treaties and national targets.

Lorraine Johnston:
Thinking about success, how do you measure the sustainable impact of your work?

Oliver Kade:
In regards to how do we measure our success, I think it's really important in terms of data, everything that we are doing in terms of the environmental impact that we're creating, we are tracking over around about 400 to 600 data points a day. We're covering where was our collection activities taking place, how much waste, plastic waste was collected, how many bags are filled? How many meters of coastline did we clean? Who was present, how many hours does it take? The composition of that plastic waste that we've collected across 32 different categories. We collect a huge amount of data there and how is that being treated? How much are we able to divert? And of course, end of life solutions that we utilize.

From a social side, we use a lives improved methodology. So essentially that means looking at through the activities that we're implementing on the ground, how much reach does that have in terms of positively supporting those communities and other stakeholders within our ecosystem. We actually look at four pillars. How many lives have improved through economic and household income? So economic empowerment and household income. That's one area. Second area is knowledge sharing and education through the work that we do. Third area is infrastructure projects because we actually recycle a lot of that material into building products which we can provide back to those communities. And then the fourth area is the human health benefit of the work that we do through reducing open burning of waste sanitation issues, and also reducing risks of vector-borne diseases like malaria and dengue and the communities that we operate in. I think that's a really key point in how we measure it. Of course, from a financial side where each year we order our financials, we're very transparent about that and I think that's a key point in terms of making sure that we're growing sustainably.

Lorraine Johnston:
And that's a really nice segue into my next question, which is around about collaborations and partnerships. And you mentioned some of the work that you do, particularly with governments. How important are collaborations and partnerships in achieving your sustainability objectives? And are there any examples that you could share with us?

Oliver Kade:
The bottom line is that partnerships are fundamental. We build projects that are creating the impact, but really it's the funding through the sponsorships that we have with corporate partners and philanthropic partners that are really driving the impact and the growth of our initiatives. I mentioned that funding gap in waste management, that's the challenge that we're trying to bridge. The solutions are quite easy and of course involving the local context, but we understand how to build projects. The key limitation is how do we finance them? Typically, when we talk about waste management, particularly plastic waste management, this is a net loss cost. So when governments are financing waste management, it's typically being covered by taxpayers, or at least that's how it used to be done historically. But with growing consumption and growing a population, really the burden of waste management and that cost is becoming increasingly heavy for governments to be able to provide it.

That's why what we're seeing now is a shift towards what we call a polluter pays model. Sometimes considered or known particularly in the policy landscape as extended producer responsibility, but what that means is how can we start to shift some of that burden of financing waste management away from taxpayers onto a lot more of those organizations that are putting plastic out on the market or consuming plastic within their operations? We are seeing that shift. That means that typically when we're looking at financing our waste management, working with corporate partners that are going to fund our initiatives are hugely valuable, and that's the way that we're going to be able to scale.

To give an example, our largest partner is Howden. They are a global insurance company, over 20,000 employees worldwide, and they actually consume a lot of plastic within their operations. They've been a massive partner for Seven Clean Seas for the last five years. Through that partnership, they have sponsored the recovery over 692,000 kilograms of plastics. Now, if it wasn't for them supporting us in the early stage and for the continued support, we wouldn't have been able to band across Indonesia and also outside of Indonesia into parts of Thailand as well, because it's having these organizations which are continually providing support, continually recognize that the global plastic crisis is one that needs attention that allows us to be able to grow scale and keep our impact growing year-on-year.

Lorraine Johnston:
Those are some amazing statistics, aren't they? So how is innovation and technology playing a role in driving the sustainable impact at Seven Clean Seas, and what sort of emerging initiatives are you particularly excited about?

Oliver Kade:
I think when we look at Seven Clean Seas, we're utilizing lots of technology and innovation from how we're tracking and a lot of the impact that we're creating. Some of our, I suppose river barrier collection systems, we see a lot of technology and innovation there. However, my opinion to this question quite often varies. I think on the one hand, we know the problem, global plastic consumption is growing and as inadequate funding for waste management, but we know how to do waste management. So really, I think just addressing this funding gap is quite a simple approach. We look at multiple different sources of financing through blended financing models. That could be through private sectors, through governments, through local communities, funding it through material value. And I think as long as we can address that issue, waste management itself is quite a simple process.

On the one hand, we don't need to see a lot of innovation. On the other hand we are, particularly when it comes to recycling, it's ridiculous how little the amount of plastic that we're able to recycle is 10% on average globally. And obviously, only 10% of that feedstock is making its way into plastic products as well. So we need to see huge innovations in recycling capabilities, and we're already seeing that with AI sorting systems for household waste management. We're seeing that with innovations in chemical recycling, which are able to take multiple different types of plastic polymers and dilute them back into their raw crude oil material types, which we're able to put back on the market. We're seeing innovations in compatibilizers, which can handle different types of plastics and molding together. We're seeing innovations in how mushrooms and enzymes are breaking down plastics, which is really great to see.

But all of this just needs to grow and scale so that we can increase the amount of plastic recycled feedstock, which is going on to the market. My opinion varies on this because one hand I think purely the root cause is just a funding gap. If we can address that funding gap, we can really create impact globally. But on the other hand, yeah, there are areas that do need a significant amount of innovation. I mentioned recycling, but we also get how we tracking marine plastic flows globally. We've got so many great AI satellite models now which are being implemented, and ultimately all of this innovation is just increasing the accessibility to address the global plastic pollution crisis.

Lorraine Johnston:
I love how you've broken down these significant and quite sometimes what feels like overwhelming challenges into real, tangible actions and solutions. I guess looking at that, taking a step back and perhaps from your own perspective, what are some of the key lessons that you have learned in this journey?

Oliver Kade:
I suppose one of the things that I learned quite early on in my career within this is that it's quite underserved, particularly within the research and the awareness piece. I came back off an educational program around sustainability. I was covering sustainability transitions at the European Environment Agency and working on a project around, I suppose global overarching sustainability strategies. And then I got pulled into the plastic space and I asked myself, "Why don't I know anything about the plastic pollution crisis and solutions to address it?" And it was through those early stage conversations I had with industry leaders that I realized the experts were being formed within industry only five years ago. Now it's a topic that has a lot of attention and people are talking about, but to see how under-researched and under knowledged, I suppose unaware the global population was around plastic pollution. We knew it was a problem, but we didn't know how to address. It was one key learning, and I think that is changing a lot at the moment.

Another thing that I suppose has always been really key, particularly not just around addressing the global plastic pollution crisis, but all sustainability aspects is this concept of leverage points. There's this woman called Donella Meadows who introduced this idea of there are multiple different leverage points to create systems change. And obviously, there are some at the lower end that education and awareness, for example, which are really important, but the overall leverage that it has in sparking change in addressing a plastic pollution crisis is still relatively limited. But if we can start to address the system, change the rules in how we consider sustainability challenges, then we can have huge leverage. And for me, that's always been our economic model that we've generated.

We talk about sustainability transitions, but we need to start to think about how do we integrate environmental concepts and externalities onto our marketplace? We've seen it with carbon, right? Carbon has a value now through taxes that are being imposed at government levels through mechanisms like carbon credits. And as a result, polluters are now considering, well, I don't want to be emitting as much carbon because that comes at a cost to me. But that's a great example where we've taken something that previously didn't have a value. You could pollute as much as you want and that wouldn't affect your company's bottom line. But now that carbon has a value and it's being regulated, people are starting to take into consideration the sustainability principles. Now, if you do the same for plastics biodiversity, you suddenly start changing how we govern our economic model and how we prioritize sustainability within it.

Previously, before we put a price on nature with biodiversity, a whale would be more economically valuable dead than it is alive, and it's a sad truth. But now we know the value that whale contributes to the ecosystem and to our planet, and we're changing how those rules and how our system is governed. So I think understanding where we can have the highest point of leverage is really important. And that's really a lot of the work that why I joined Seven Clean Seas because we're starting to build systems and state, okay, well plastic is a commodity that we need to start considering and it has a cost to be in the environment, and that's what we're trying to address. And then finally, I would say that particularly in the line of work that I work in, we really are quite heavily exposed to vulnerable communities that are suffering from plastic pollution.

And I think when we started Seven Clean Seas, we simply figured that we could go to a community, collect plastic pollution and ultimately restore the natural ecosystem, but it's actually not that simple. I think we really have to understand the local social economic context because a lot of these communities that we operate in, they're largely informal and it's a self-perpetuating cycle. So what we need to do is we need to find solutions that can economically empower the community themselves, and that's going to ultimately uplift those communities out of those vulnerable situations and also going to allow them to focus on sustainability and solutions that previously it wasn't a priority to them. When you're thinking about how you're going to keep a roof over your head, how are you going to feed yourself unless you start providing support to those communities in economic empowerment, sustainability is a second thought. I think the social economic context in these communities and within sustainability and a broader context is really important, it's not just the environmental element.

Lorraine Johnston:
I love that. It's very much a story around about understanding and being inquisitive as well. I guess just to round it off then, how do you see the role of future generations and driving change? You've mentioned how nascent an area this is particularly in plastics pollution, but what advice would you give to people who are passionate about making a difference in this area?

Oliver Kade:
I think we're reaching an inflection point now more than ever, which is sustainability used to be a niche. I speak to sustainability professionals that have been doing it for 40 years. I'm really admired because they were putting the flag down and leading sustainability initiatives globally. But now nearly every single company, whether it's a small medium-sized enterprise or it's a large multilateral organization, they have sustainability strategies, they have sustainability professionals. I think that's incredibly positive because it means that it's now quite normal, it's quite commonplace to have sustainability within an organisation.

What I'd say for future generations, keep going on and keep pushing in terms of sustainability initiatives. I'd say that sustainability is not an end point, but it's an ever-growing cycle of improvement. Future generations are constantly going to be raising the bar in what's happened before. But in terms of what my advice would be to individuals that are looking to get into sustainability and who currently are in it and want to keep driving change is I suppose drawing from my knowledge when I used to work in futures change, which essentially is I used to day after day, week after week, ask myself, "What do we want the future to look like in 20 years?"

What I learned from that is quite often when I was asking people, "What does a positive future look like to you?" I realized that people and humanity tends to be quite pessimistic. But really, if we're able to think about and be optimistic about the future we want to achieve and see the change that we want to see in that future, then we're going to be able to create a huge amount of impact.

For me, the image that always sticks in my head when I ask myself what future do do I want to live in is the reality of getting up in the morning on a Monday morning, going to work and being able to hear birdsong and being able to hear nature around us because hopefully in 20 years time, noise pollution from petrol cars and whatnot will be gone and the air will be fresh, will be free from pollution. That always motivates me to think that's the future that I want to see, and I'm going to keep working on achieving that. And it helps me stay optimistic in a world that's quite often filled with negative stories as well. So that would be my advice, be the change that you want to see, think about what future that you want to live in, and stay optimistic.

Lorraine Johnston:
Oliver, thank you so much for your time and your insight into all of these questions. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Oliver Kade:
Thank you so much, Lorraine. It's been an absolute pleasure. And ultimately, it's initiatives like this that are spreading more awareness around sustainability, so thank you so much for the opportunity.

Lorraine Johnston:
Thank you for listening to this episode of ESG Matters at Ashurst. I hope you found this episode insightful. To subscribe for future episodes of Game Changers, and to hear previous episodes, click on the link in the show notes or search ESG Matters at Ashurst on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there, please feel free to leave a rating or a review. And finally, to learn more about all Ashurst podcasts, visit ashurst.com/podcasts. In the meantime, thanks again for listening, and goodbye for now.