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Legal Outlook Trainee Talks Episode 2

Ashurst's trainee talks 2 – transcript

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    Transcript



    Host:
    Hello, and welcome to Ashurst Legal Outlook, and our mini-series speaking to trainees about their journey to Ashurst, their hopes and dreams for the future, and their hints and tips for future trainees. In this episode I speak to Joshua Mo. We discuss his background and decision to pursue a law degree, rather than joining the army, and how he still finds time for his passion for boxing amid a busy work schedule. Join me as we get the inside scoop on what it's like to work as a trainee solicitor at Ashurst. You're listening to Ashurst Legal Outlook.

    So Joshua, welcome to the podcast. I wanted to firstly ask you why you decided to pursue a career in law?

    Joshua Mo:
    Well, I guess it started in high school. I did a lot of Model UN, and I quite liked the debating side of that, so I decided to do law in uni, and in uni I joined the law society and attended a bunch of different topics from different firms, and I found the people pretty engaging. To be honest I always thought it would be a bit more uptight, more boring. My parents said you have to do a professional degree, because as a kid I wanted to join the army. So yeah, I attended these talks and the people seemed nice, so I decided to give it a shot.

    Host:
    Fascinating. So you mentioned that you thought it would be not as exciting as it is, tell me what specifically are you referring to there?

    Joshua Mo:
    I thought in reality it would be a lot of staring at documents, a lot of grinding away on a computer, tapping a keyboard, long hours. I also thought, by the time I joined uni Suits had come out, and Suits made laws seem quite an aggressive profession, the people seem quite mean, so I was not really attracted to law based on what I saw on TV or my personal conceptions.

    Host:
    So what's the reality? Are partners mean? What's the culture like where you work?

    Joshua Mo:
    Well, at least for the firm Ashurst, people are quite friendly. I guess my preconceptions changed during [inaudible 00:02:27] when I met pretty much the cohort, I met people in the departments I worked in, which is corporate transactions and employment, and they all seemed like normal people. We'd go out for food after, yeah, it was the complete opposite of what I thought it would be.

    Host:
    So tell me, why did you decide to apply for Ashurst? Was there anything in particular that stood out?

    Joshua Mo:
    Well, I decided I wanted a firm with a strong focus on finance or corporate law, because those were the sections that I worked on as editor in the law review in uni, so I applied to firms with this particular focus. And I think I mentioned I was on the [inaudible 00:03:14], and that was quite a strong selling point for me because everyone seemed genuinely nice, they seemed actually interested in what I had to say, and that's stayed throughout my training contract as well.

    Host:
    Tell me, thinking about all the skills you would have learned through your debating, and also through the law society and editing the journal, how applicable are they to your day-to-day work at the moment?

    Joshua Mo:
    Well, first of all, I'm a first seater in derivatives, and it is a bit of a technical area. So I would say that editing law review for the corporate section has helped quite a bit. For example, I walked in knowing what a bond is, which is quite useful. I would say the LPC also prepares us for this. In terms of a holistic assessment, I'm not sure how my experiences have prepared me for this.

    Host:
    So it's a bit like being thrown in the deep end, you don't know until you're actually there and working.

    Joshua Mo:
    Yeah, yeah, I'd say it's got quite a steep learning curve, but if you're prepared to accept it and get moving, it's pretty good.

    Host:
    What's some of the highlights so far in your work and career at Ashurst?

    Joshua Mo:
    I'd say, this sounds cliched, but I'd say it's definitely the people, especially since I started the training contracts in lockdown, and it lifted in April, so it was about a month in, and it really made a difference coming into the office, and the people are great. I have a pretty good relationship with my supervisor, a lot of banter with the trainees.

    Host:
    And so culturally does any events or things happen out of the office with your fellow trainees?

    Joshua Mo:
    Yeah, so this has been one point that the firm is quite strong on, I think, where every Thursday there's departmental drinks, so we head out into the terrace, enjoy the sunshine. I mean, it's the UK, so I guess that's once a month. But yeah, we head out to the sunshine, get some drinks, get some food, catch up with people, that's always been nice. There's also trainee specific and trainee led events where we just head out to a pub nearby and chat, so that's always good to end the day on a high note.

    Host:
    So being able to connect with fellow trainees, obviously a positive because then you can apply some of the lessons that they may have learned to your role.

    Joshua Mo:
    Yeah, I think it's very positive. So me and my friends have a no work rule, so when we go hang out we specifically say, "I do not want to talk about work." But in of when we get lunch, or when we discuss tasks or projects, yeah, it is great to have a support network. For example, if a trainee has worked on a deal that I'm replicating or using that as a precedent, it's always nice because I'll just see their personnel code on the file, and I can just give them a ring and say, "How was this deal? What do I have to look out for?" Yeah, so it's always nice.

    Host:
    Joshua, I have a colleague and we always say that we'll never talk about work when we have drinks or go out for dinner, but always the first thing we talk about is work, it's inevitable, I think.

    Joshua Mo:
    Yeah.

    Host:
    Tell me, what's one piece of advice you would have for someone looking to apply for a traineeship with Ashurst?

    Joshua Mo:
    I would say, I would break this into two and say, when you apply with the written assessment, or whatever it is, make sure it's obviously tailored to the firm, you should not just look at deals, but look at the different offices, look at what Ashurst is strong at, what potential opportunities there might be in the market. And when you do come for interview I would say prep, but don't over-prepare, because if you're invited to interview, they pretty much like what they see on paper, so they're probably trying to assess you as a person, so try to come across as a functioning human being and not just a word on a piece of paper.

    Host:
    What's some of your dreams for the future, maybe some goals for the first year there, and where you see yourself in 10 years?

    Joshua Mo:
    I guess I'll start with the 10 years part first, but going back to previously, I never really thought I would be a lawyer, or be interested in the legal field, but having been here a total of five months, I think it's a possibility that in 10 years I could still be working in the legal field, which is quite a jump in five months. As for goals, I haven't really thought about these, I'm just enjoying my training contract as it is.

    Host:
    What impact did COVID have, particularly when, you obviously started during the lockdown period. Talk me through the transition from working from home and then coming into the office.

    Joshua Mo:
    I would say starting work in lock down is pretty brutal. I don't see how people have managed to do it for a year, or two years. It was quite intimidating at first, because I'd never seen the departmental staff in person, so I would just be clicking call on Skype and hoping they wouldn't be annoyed. But transitioning into work in person makes a big difference. The office is great, I think I mentioned we have a terrace, there's lots of space. The kit is pretty good too. So coming into the office, it's just a whole different experience, and I guess I feel more efficient, but also because there's a lot more socializing, I'll just pop into other training rooms and have a chat, have a cup of tea. It's just a more positive experience.

    Host:
    Yeah, absolutely. Can you just paint a bit of a picture about your day to day tasks and what you do on a day-to-day basis at Ashurst now that you're back in the office?

    Joshua Mo:
    Yeah, so a basic day I usually start 9:30. We get quite a lot of emails from the US, so I'll have to deal with the stuff that came in after I logged off yesterday, so usually it's a lot of filing emails. I keep a notebook of my day to day to-do lists, and I update that so I made sure I don't miss stuff. Usually I just start prioritizing what has to be done today and I'll watch and wait, and I just get started on those tasks. It's always nice because by 10 most people are in, well most people that are coming into the office are in, and we can just go catch up, have a cup of coffee, if you drink coffee, and chat about the day ahead. And then yeah, I just get started on work, have lunch at around one to two.

    Throughout the day people might just give you ad hoc tasks, and again, you just gauge those by priority. Interestingly, I'll start drafting a few documents for a specific deal I'm on, which I didn't think I would be doing. I remember getting the instructions from the associate and thinking, this is not what I've trained for, but it's actually been going quite well. People are always there if you have questions on drafting. Again, if a trainee has worked on a precedent deal, I can just ask them and be like, "Hey, I have to draft a first draft for this deed, can you help me out on this?" And people, if they're not busy they're more likely than not happy to help. And yeah, by the end of the day I just file my emails and make sure there's nothing really important left outstanding, and log off.

    Host:
    Awesome, sounds like you're surprising yourself with the things that you could do even within, what's it been, five months since you started?

    Joshua Mo:
    Yeah, that's been, like I said, a steep learning curve, but it's been pretty good.

    Host:
    So it doesn't really matter what sort of career you have, you always want to try and make a difference. I'm wondering whether you can share with us how you think law can make a difference.

    Joshua Mo:
    Our firm has quite a strong pro bono offering. I think we have a trainee seat that's just pro bono, and I've been involved in a few of those projects, most recently Windrush, that's been an immigration project, helping people affected stay in the UK. Don't get me wrong, the work is great, it's fun, I'm learning all these different technicalities and nuances in the finance world, but also doing pro bono is more of a personal touch. So you're dealing with people that you can actually hear on call, you can hear how invested they are, how invested their caseworker is. So I think that's fulfilling in a different way, as compared to work in general, law can make a great difference.

    Host:
    What do you like to do outside of hours? Outside of work?

    Joshua Mo:
    I really like boxing. It's been hard fitting training around work, I try to skip or train or run at least once a day, so usually I'll fit it into the front end, so I usually get up a bit earlier and do that. People here have been quite accommodating of that. If I'm not on a really mind bending or really time pressured deal they'll be like, "Fine, you can go train at 6:30 and maybe log on after if there's anything pressing." So that's always been helpful.

    Host:
    I recently have started to attempt a double unders.

    Joshua Mo:
    Ooh, that's hard.

    Host:
    Yeah, I'm struggling. Struggling to just do single unders, to be perfectly honest with you.

    Joshua Mo:
    In my final interview for Ashurst they asked the same question and I said, "I like boxing," and the partner said, "You don't look like a boxer," but I came back with, "You don't look like a lawyer," and I was lucky to found it funny.

    Host:
    Oh, that's awesome. Mate, it's been fascinating to talk to you, really appreciate it, thanks very much, Joshua.

    Joshua Mo:
    Thanks a lot.

    Host:
    Thank you for listening. To hear more Ashurst podcasts, including our dedicated channel on all things ESG, please visit Ashurst.com/podcasts. To ensure you don't miss future episodes, subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform. While you're there please feel free to keep the conversation going, and leave us a rating or review.

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